>> i'm just trying to play the nice guy today. why not. i learned that i'm kind of bummed that i'm not on "morning joe" tomorrow because i'm a big fan of laura dern. >> she's going to be on the show tomorrow. >> i'm joining the brzezinskis on thanksgiving. thanksgiving 2013. i didn't realize you were taking serious that invitation. >> why don't we do a starter dinner. >> in the garage. >> maybe that wouldn't be at our home. brian sullivan, you're on the air at 2:00 p.m. "street signs." carl bernstein, what did you learn today. >> the conventional wisdom in washington, particularly as it surrounds the hagual question, is even more appalling than even i could imagine. wow, it's awful. >> he'll be confirmed. that's what i learned today. if it's way too early -- come on, are you serious? >> we'll see. we'll see. >> we'll see is not a bad answer. >> be confirmed.

>> it require senators. >> move it over here. if it's way too early it's time for "morning joe." "daily rundown" with chuck todd. have a good day, everyone. going on offense for defense. come on, it was predictable, right? president obama makes it clear that his team is ready for a fight over confirming chuck hagel as defense secretary. can the former republican senator satisfy enough democrats on capitol hill to get the votes he need? enhanced interrogation. john brennan the president's pick to run the cia could face a lot of questions over his role in shaping counterterror policies during the bush administration and, frankly, with the drone wars of the obama years. and then politics loses one of its best biographers, well, ever. saying good-bye to richard ben kramer, a man who knew what it takes better than anybody. good morning from washington. it's tuesday, january 8th, 2013. this is "daily rundown."

i'm chuck todd. my first reads of the morning. chuck hagel's nomination has set up a tough, new political fight for the white house. a fight president obama signaled he's ready to have over the plain spoken vietnam veteran. >> willingness to speak his mind, even if it wasn't popular. even if it defied the conventional wisdom. that's exactly the spirit i want on my national security team. >> under fire for his past statements about israel and iran. hagel is now speaking out. told his hometown newspaper "lincoln journal star." the distersions about my record have been astounding. once voicing opposition to unilateral sanctions on iran, hagel says while he was "hanging out there in no man's land unable to respond to charges, falsehoods and indistortions, he admitted they took on a life of their own."

he's arguing that there's "not one shred of evidence that i'm anti-israeli. nat one vote that matters that hurt israel." hagel defending his iran stance saying unilateral sanctions, "don't work and just isolate the united states." republican critics many who bitterly remember his split from the iraq war are focusing on iran and israel. >> he's an honorable man. he's had a record of distinguished service, but he's profoundly wrong on a number of the most important national security issues that face our country today. >> but this issue of israel and iran is something the white house is nervous about. they began a feverish lobbying effort talking to key leaders of key jewish groups. senior white house officials, including chief of staff jack lu spent the weekend calling many leaders. if softened criticism from the

anti-defamation league who put out this statement about hagel. "senator hagel would not have been my first choice, but i respect the president's prerogative." but it did not persuade former new york city mayor who the white house also reached out to both of them. after hagel was formally nominated dershowitz released a statement saying koch said, "frankly, i thought that there would come a time when president obama would renege on what he conveyed on his support of israel. it comes a little earlier than i thought it would." well, speaking of schumer, yesterday he was noncommittal publicly. in a statement saying this, "i look forward to fully studying his record and exploring his views." hagel is also, though, likely to face questions about some positions on gay rights after his 1998 comments ambassador

nominee as openly, gay. one gay senator said she would like to hear more. >> i do want to speak with him, particularly about his comments 14 years ago to see if his apology is sincere and sufficient. >> former congressman barney frank who blasted his quote saying bigoted opposition to ambassador hormel. he dialed it back a bit yesterday in an interview with "boston globe." with the attack coming out of the right, i hope now he gets confirmed. here's the bottom line. like any washington feeding frenzy, these charges will depend on new information to actually sink hagel's nomination. nothing new comes out and for everything we're dealing with we know on iran, israel on anything. white house is pretty confident that this will become much to do about nothing. the democrats who are on the fence will fall in line behind

hagel and not be enthusiastic about it, but they will be there at the end of the day. like any of these things, it's about new information. one thing that puts them in a precarious position. hagel, that is. senators aren't in town, most of them. so, the courtesy calls can't yet begin and face-to-face time matters here more than phone calls and that the confirmation process has not yet got a schedule and kicked into gear. this can't linger is the bottom line. some second-term presidents make their cabinets by rewarding strong deputies or what i refer to as superstaffers. instead president obama is sending a different message, at least through his foreign policy vision national security appo t appointme appointments. for the first time, two vietnam veterans whose cautious approach was shaped by service in that war. chuck hagel and john kerry, they're going to lead u.s. national security policy. president tried to preempt criticism of hagel yesterday, in fact, by selling that biography. almost daring critics to vote against someone who had given so

much to this country. >> to this day, chuck bears the scars and the shrapnel from battles he fought in our name. chuck knows that war is not an abstraction. he understands that sending young americans to fight and bleed in the dirt and mud u that's something we only do when it's absolutely necessary. >> that message may be aimed at potential critics, like another vietnam veteran, senator john mccain who hagel split with over the troop surge in iraq. who responded to hagel's nomination saying, "i have serious concerns about positions senator hagel has taken on a range of critical national security issues and here's the most important part of that quote, "in recent years." he is aware of the quotes he said about hagel six or seven years ago. they've got five purple hearts between them. that's the kind of people we

want withdrawing from afghanistan and ending this insane war. i see them as the perfect dynamic duo. batman and robin, salt and pepper, tom and jerry. they have both been shot at and hit. like the hagual pick nominating john brennan signal to opponents of the light footprint strategy which relies on technology and holds war as a last resort when president obama is looking for cover to draw down the u.s. presence in afghanistan and around the world. brennan has been the chief defender of this expanded drone policy. arguing in april that drone strikes against al qaeda are "ethical and just." >> it is hard to imagine a tool that can better minimize the risk to civilians than remotely piloted aircraft. for the same reason, targeted strikes conform to the principle of humanity. >> we're going to get more into this later in the show. even the long laugh that the

president exchanged with outgoing defense secretary leon panetta showed something about his intention to remake the pentagon. almost over the opposition of republican critics. >> the time has come for me to return to my wife silvia, our three sons, their families, our six grandchildren and my walnut farm. dealing with a different set of nuts. >> the confirmation fights ahead will be driven not just by criticism of hagel and brennan's record, but foreign policy approach. that's what's going on here. in the first term, the president showed he was going to give the washington establishment more deference with his foreign policy pick. he picked hillary clinton as secretary of state and jim jones was his additional national security adviser. none of that deference this time in a selection of hagel, of a kerry, of brennan. president's message is, i got this. it is clear this is a president who wants to leave an imprint on

foreign policy. not just about the white house running it, but leaving an imprint everywhere else. he wants his guys to do it. he may not say it the same way bush said it after his re-election to a second term, but obama believes that he's earned political capital, particularly in national security and he's going to use it. finally, vice president biden will meet with gun violence victims groups and gun safety organizations tomorrow as the white house prepared to unveil its proposals on gun violence as early as next week. on the second anniversary of the tucson shooting, after traveling to newtown, connecticut, and the wake of that massacre, former congresswoman gabby giffords and her husband, mark kelly, announcing the formation of a new organization aimed at persuading elected officials to act on some form of gun control. >> first couple that we spoke to dad took out a cell phone and showed us a picture of his daughter. and i just about lost it. >> enough.

>> in a "usa today" op-ed the two write this. in response to a horrific series of shootings that has shown t terror in our communities and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a tucson parking lot. congress has done something quite extraordinary. nothing at all. americans for responsible solutions provide a counterweight to the nra. also today, another group, the antiillegal guns group founded by mike bloomberg is going on air with a tv ad that will run on cable in a limited and invoke sandy hook and features the mother of the youngest victim of the tucson shooting. >> my 9-year-old daughter was murdered in the tucson shooting. i have one question for our political leaders. when will you find the courage to stand up to the gun lobby? whose child has to die next? to every mother, we cannot wait. >> bloomberg appeared on "morning joe" a few moments ago

to talk more about his effort. >> nobody is trying to take away your gun. no one is trying to take away your right to go hunting or target shooting or have protection in your home. simply, trying to have some reasonable things so people aren't killed. >> how successful will victims' groups be at building political pressure? a different way about going about it. passing gun control legislation will be political. by the way, yesterday gun rights groups announced a "gun appreciation day" two days before president's inauguration to turn out in mass at gun shows, ranges and shows from coast to coast. up next, the war over words. chuck hagel's past statements and lack of signatures on things have drawn sharp criticism from both sides of the aisle, but is it enough to deny the president his choice to lead the pentagon. former congresswoman jane harvey will be here to talk about those

things and what's going on in the intelligence community. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule. quiet day. every day we're on the look out. country does need a new treasury secretary. you're watching "daily rundown" only on msnbc. asional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.

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in nominating chuck hagel to run the pentagon, the president praised his willingness to speak his mind, but that kind of unvarnished truth telling of sorts that has gotten the form senator into trouble with republicans and some democrats. with me now, jane harmine who

served on the house intelligence committee. director of the wilson center. she joins me now. >> hi, chuck. >> let me start with a basic definition, if you could, in your view, define what it is to be pro-israeli in american politics today. >> that's an interesting term, i wouldn't usually say pro-israel. i think it means recognizing that israel is our strongest democratic ally in the middle east and that it is, it was and is the refuge for 6 million the successors of 6 million people brutally murdered in the holocaust and that we need to do everything we can to keep israel strong. that is what being pro-israel is. i don't think being pro-israel means every single policy of israel or the united states deserves blind inherence.

one can exercise free will and intelligence and comment on policies that, perhaps, might be better to protect our closest democratic ally in the middle east. >> this issue of israel and senator hagel's stances about israel and iran sanctions, it's clearly going to be the defining point and i want to get you to react to something. i had someone from a prominent pro-israel group say to me, they're not crazy about the nomination. but they think it would be worse if the pro-israel community was able to kill the nomination because then, suddenly, send a signal that the israeli government, essentially, would have a larger say so over u.s. foreign policy. is that, is that too strong of a view from this person? >> i think that's a lot in one person's view. but i think sort of looking at the other way. i think the president has the right to nominate whom he

deserves and, in the case of hagel, it's somebody he's extremely close to. hagel should be questioned vigorously by the senate armed services committee. and his response to those questions will matter and his comportment in private meetings with senators will matter and then the senate will vote its will. i predict the senate will confirm him and, let's remember, he's not in charge of foreign policy for the obama administration. he implements the directives of the president and he will be the ceo of the defense department, which has our military and some of our civilian defense assets in it. but it doesn't have our foreign policy civil servants. >> arguably, the least, the least sort of influential of the national security team when it comes to policy. it depends on who -- but because -- >> it depends what the policy is. if it's prosecuting war, it's kind of influential. but, again, hagel and kerry both

bring skills. you pointed this out with their five purple hearts between them, on the ground, in the dirt understanding what war is. >> i want to talk about john brennan. you served on the intelligence committee, you know this stuff inside and out. right after 9/11 this big attempt to transform the int intelligence community, create essentially a more streamline bureaucracy of sorts, creating this deputy, you know, director of national intelligence that the cia director would report to. that the cia wouldn't be the last stop of intelligence. but isn't the president signaling. he was very careful yesterday and so was john brennan and everyone has been careful to say john brennan in the flow chart reports to dni jim clapper. isn't the president signaling that he believes, look, intelligence belongs to the cia? >> well, brennan will be a very strong leader of the cia and he has 25 years of experience at

the cia. but, let's roll back the videotape. after 9/11. remember, we have the intelligence in iraq war and lots of us, i was certainly one of the ring leaders wanted to reorganize our intelligence capability so we can get it right. one thing that happened along the way, president bush 43 issued an executive order calling something the terrorist threat center. that wasn't in the law. this was an executive order. brennan became its first director and then when we passed the intelligence reform law in 2004, there were four of us who were very keen to do this. pete huxtra was my partner in the house and joe lieberman did this in the senate. when we passed this law national terrorism center. brennan was its director. he has been in at the beginning. a number of roles in this play that is still ongoing. >> but basically eliminated.

when i say eliminated that the dni, it is sort of a figure head? >> no, i don't think so. the biggest change -- the dni is the joint commander across 16 intelligence agencies. we modeled it after the chairman of the joint chiefs in the pentagon, who was the commander across four military services. otherwise, we would fight four wars, which we wruzed to do and we don't want to fight 16 intelligence wars. so, he's the commander leveraging the strengths of different agencies and there is a program where people move along the agencies to break down the stove pipes. we said we're changing a need to know culture where people horde information to share. given his white house role, however, there still is a need for coordination and where will we see it i continue to predict in national intelligence estimates. the blue print for how to think about a problem. and the cia role in that is

large, but the role of other intelligence agencies is important, too. and i think that brennan has a chance, not only to lead the cia in very impressive way, but also to restore some of its former missions. it's become a paramilitary organization lately lauz lly b the demands of drones and i think that mission should be reconsidered and more of our drone capability should move to the pentagon. >> with the defense department. i love you brought back stove pipes. that was a buzz word when we were doing this. a lot of white men being appointed to those posts. are you disappointed that the president hasn't had more diversity in some of these national security picks? >>l >> let me just put out there, a lot of capable women. four women right now who head four of the intelligence agencies and other capable women out there, too. it would be nice to see more diversity in that lineup in some

near future and i predict that president obama, who certainly is keen on women's leadership will get the point some time soon. >> all right, jane harman congresswoman out in california head of the wilson center. thanks for coming on this morning. >> thank you, chuck. a giant in journalism and politics. first, today's trivia question. of the 52 current senators who served in the u.s. house of representatives, how many of them served just one term? tweet me the answer @chucktodd and @dailyrundown. [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity,

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potential pitfall in the benghazi investigation just as the secretary of state gets back to work. race is on for jesse jackson jr. former house seat and we're mourning the loss of a great political journalist. first, there are reports this morning that the only suspect in custody for the deadly attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya, has now been freed. the tunisian man's lawyer cited lack of evidence for his client's conditional freedom. the september 11th attack killed four americans, including the u.s. ambassador. after a month-long absence secretary of state hillary clinton is back at work. her staff welcomed her with a football helmet with the state department seal to protect her from any future concussions in the contact sport that is washington politics. she also got a matching jersey showing how many countries she has traveled to as secretary of state. still, of course, know that we will see her publicly when she

testifies on the benghazi issue. in illinois "chicago tribune" reports that there are 22 candidates on the ballot to replace jesse jackson jr. for the february 26th primary. the special election is set for april 9th, but, of course, the primary for the democratic nominee will essentially decide that race. finally, some very sad news for all of us who love politics and journalism. journalist richard ben cramer has died from complications of brain cancer. simultaneously inspired folks to get into political journalism and to get into politics. cramer worked for "baltimore" and won a pulitzer prize in 1979 for covering the middle east. later wrote about baseball

player ted williams "esquire" in 1996. but his turn to politics in the late '80s that defined his career. cramer's captivating chronicle of six presidential candidates offered an original and personal perspective on the dare i say it, human side of politics. because of cramer, we really came to know george hubert walker bush's past to the presidency and know about the protective son of the same name who is incredibly competitive with senior staff on that came pain who showed some traits that would become familiar during his own time in the white house. the politically tragic aspect of how he always seemed to finish behind the elder bush. gary hart's self-destructing slide chronicled in real-time. joe biden scranton roots, tragic personal loss and near-death experience. again, he was chronicling that in real-time. dick gephardt's hard drive to become a contender and michael

ducaucus political posturing that secured the democratic. an appreciation for cramer's collection of stories grew and grow over the years. changed political reporting, period. the tweets in the past hour show what impact cramer had. jay carney, a long-time reporter before taking the job he has called cramer "a campaign chronicler." if you think you love politics and haven't read "what it takes" you don't, really. our friend at "washington post" called cramer's passing a huge loss for anyone who loves journalism. i couldn't agree with that more. fact is, he was simply a good writer and good reporter whether it was politics, war or sports. also wrote a great book about joe dimaggio, by the way. you should go read that, as well. whenever anyone asks me about getting into politics, i always

say, go read "what it takes." pretty much the only book you should read. if you don't love it after you're done, don't get into the business. here's cramer in his own words on what it takes from 1992. >> ultimately, it takes the life that brought them to the point where they could run for president. you know, these brilliant lives that bring a man to the point where he thinks he ought to be our leader are wiped away from the system we erected. we march them around and guys in gray suits handing them things telling them where they're going. after years of this, we shove one of them into the white house and then the american people sit back and say, why does this poor guy seem so cut off? >> richard ben cramer was of 2. ! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card!

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fighting terrorism makes him the perfect man to leave the cia. to critics he may be the man who knows too much. today's "deep dive" we look at brennan's past and what it means to claim the top job. if he gets it, a final step in a 25-year career with the cia. former director in george tenant's chief of staff who named deputy executive director in 2001. in 2003, the first and only head of the terrorist threat integration center and was, of course, the interim director of the national counterterrorism center when it was created. it was during those years after 9/11 that the bush administration became involved in anti-terrorism efforts that included the use of "enhanced interrogation." to obtain information and techniques moving allege terrorists and detaining them. after leaving the government in 2005, brennan acknowledged that those decisions were not made lightly, but he also said he made the argument that they worked.

>> well, cia has acknowledged that it has detained about 100 terrorists since 9/11 and a third of them subjected to enhance interrogation and tactics and only a small portion of those have, in fact, been subjected to the most serious types of enhance procedures. >> you say some of this has born -- >> there has been a lot of information that has come out from these interrogation proceedings that the agency has, in fact, used against the hard core terrorists. it has saved lives. >> out of government at the time, brennan was brought in to advise then candidate obama on intelligence matters. obama liked him so much, he considered him for cia director the first time around. but when word was leaked in november 2008, criticism about brennan's ties to the bush administration and to those enhanced tactics prompted him to withdraw his name from consideration. his letter to president-elect obama, it has been immaterial to

the critics that i have been a strong opponent of many of the policies of the bush administration such as the preemptative war in iraq and tactics to include waterboarding. the fact that i was not involved in the decisionmaking process has been ignored. the extent of his opposition is murky. cia colleagues told "the washington post" they don't recall him raising objections and ruling out waterboarding rules out just one of the enhanced techniques used at the time. those included sleep deprivation or seeing them to remain in uncomfortable positions. 2010 brennan told "new york times" that he doesn't see them as one in the same. "i was somebody who did oppose waterboarding. i opposed different aspects of the enhanced interrogation program, but some aspects that i concurred with. for instance, if you grab somebody by the lapels and you say, oh, my goodness, you violated the right as a person, well, i'm not going to go that far." keep in mind the white house

does not use any kauvuacaveats. when asked point blank in 2011 if president obama waivered on the torture ban he signed the answer was a simple no. the white house insists the brennan role in instituting the president's ban should take the issue off the table. during his confirmation hearing. but senators have indicated it will be a point of contention. david sangar is the chief washington correspondent for "new york times" someone that chronicles the security side. good morning to. >> you happy new year, chuck. great to be back with you. >> if i told you two months ago brennan to the cia and chuck hagel to the defense department. which one would you think the more controversial choice? >> well, i guess i would have thought that mr. hagel would be only because he alienated a number of republicans in his own

party when he departed so publicly from president bush's decision to pursue the war in iraq. you may remember that he voted against the surge. >> the surge, in particular. >> right. and that mr. brennan, while all the issues you just discussed were very potent in 2008 and 20 2009, we're at sort of a different point in the war that he's had. four years in which he's been running the drone program and, my guess is, that when he actually gets the confirmation hearings, you'll probably be hearing as much about drones as you will about torture issues. >> let's talk about drones. it does feel that torture is something that is politically behind him a bit. but he, he, the issue of drones and the defense of it and the use of it and, frankly, also, when to use and when to target an american citizen that is going to, i assume, come up. what part do you think makes him most vulnerable in these

confirmation hearings? what does he have to explain himself the most on? >> the issue of drones is probably going to be a bigger issue for the democrats in some way than it is for the republicans. but, i think there are sort of three things to think about when you think about mr. brennan's role. the first is that the president didn't double down or triple down. he more than on attacks in pakistan. but the use of the drones expand beyond, this discussion of how they can be used else where in africa and this goes far beyond the initial legal definition of pursuing a war against those who had perpetrated 9/11. so, i think mr. brennan has been trying to move the justifications to match the current circumstances. and the question is, will they be beyond the law? a very central proponent of the light footprint strategy.

special forces in place of sending in 1 00,000 troops to iraq or afghanistan or to a ground invasion in libya or syria and that's now beginning to run a little bit to the end of its utility as you've seen in syria. so, i think he'll get a lot of questions about that, as well. >> david, who runs the drone war? the cia and the pentagon and who should run the drone war? >> well, there are two wars. the pentagon does the overuse of drones. so, we can use them, say, in afghanistan. where there is a declared military action. but in pakistan or any place where it's used in a covert way, that's the cia. and most of those decisions are made in mr. brennan's basement office, under the oval office in the west wing and he's the one who's got to put together what has become known popularly as the list and i'll work with president obama and others on how they want to narrow those. a lot of debate. if you kill a terrorist and then

he's replaced by his driver and the next drone goes in after him, is that a legitimate target? >> well, i think the other question that jane harman brought up earlier, should any of this stuff be done under the cia or done at the pong where, frankly, more accountable perhaps in place? >> well, chuck, the drone war is the least covert covert operation the u.s. has ever run. every drone strike done by the cia or just about everyone is reported in the newspapers or some journal -- >> can't hide them. they're not small things. >> the most covert one, of course, is cyber. he's been deeply involved in that, as well. >> written a big book on all of this stuff on drones and the intelligence. wars, if you will. david, thank you very much. >> thank you, chuck. first, white house soup of the day. they say it's herb swiss chard

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con on chuck hagel. the white house seems pretty engaged on it. walk me through it. >> we haven't had a nomination in a long time. we were sitting in the green room trying to remember what the last one was. >> became really contentious. >> yeah, so, this is going to be interesting. i think at the end of the day, you have a lot of these democratic senators saying okay to chuck hagel. but he has relationships with some of these members that go back a long time. mccain has had a different history with and they were friends and then they weren't and very different views. >> competitive. >> they competitive. >> mavericks in 2002. >> mccain supported hagel in his first bid for senate and hagel is one of the few senators to endorse mccain. >> you know, it's interesting, this personal one-on-one meetings and i believe there's very little margin for error for hagel.

but no new information assuming he does well in the charm offensive, but when does this begin, luke? >> i think certainly in the broad sense it's quite interesting that we often hear amongst pundits and we hear around the country to be so polarized. what is the most dangerous place to be in washington, d.c., right now. a moderate georgetown professor. that's where hagel is right now. a moderate georgetown professor. when he comes back and the senate is coming back a few days, the day after the inauguration and probably not going to happen then. involve the administration and initially not defending him when this leaked out. he will have another, i guess, in a few weeks that he will have the means on the hill. but there's going to be a lot of time but he's going to have to play defense to become secretary of defense. i think the thing that will help him out here, though, the combat story. especially in this draw down military. that's the thing -- >> leaned on that. >> he's come back to that and

get a lot of respect of veterans on capitol hill. >> i want you to respond to a lot of letters to the editor, if you will, myself and mark halperin gets e-mails from her. a very proliffic liberal democrat that e-mails. simply there have been four of the last four defense secretaries nominated by democratic presidents and three have been republicans. >> well, it's interesting to see what happened in foreign policy in the course of the last four years. with president obama, democrats have taken away the mantle of strength in foreign policy. so, i think the fact that the president is willing to nominate chuck hagel, someone who says lindsey graham says is an in your face nomination to republicans shows that the president has confidence in the strength -- >> what about sending this message. i heard this grumbling about the hagual nomination from some democrats who say, he's fine.

i'll end up voting for him. what is it? democrats can manage the defense department too. >> the president made this a lot less about party and more about who chuck hagel is as a person. this is a guy who's a decorated veteran. and when you've got a period of time when you have to make huge cuts to the pentagon -- >> if obama is all about change and being a transformative figure -- >> interesting perspective. stick around. i want to talk about richard cramer, trivia question, of the 52 current senators who served in the u.s. house of representatives how many served just one term. phil scott and maria kantwell, got out of politics for a while and made some money. if you have a political

question, e-mail us at daily rundown.

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let's bring back our group. you are all of a certain age when it comes to what influences you, richard ben cramer, all of us are sharing stories, what it takes. for me it was my catcher in the rye, the way mark david chapman held onto it. >> compare yourself to mark david chapman. >> i'm not trying to but it was like -- >> this is a more recent thing, i loved how he made these politicians people. and we all want to know about their lives but then it wasn't as much of a trend. ben smith has a fantastic column about him about his house in

chesterfield, ireland. on the eastern shore and just how he was in the center guy. i think it makes him a person. >> luke, sports and politics, the guy had -- >> you and i have -- >> when i went to boston college, the most interesting part of the story, when he came back from world war ii, we remember ted will yimz marine pilot. it was hard to get back in sports. richard ben cramer does a great job of that. lee atwater, critical of the media, how he shows he's able to build the smoke screen and dictate how the coverage would go forward -- >> peel back the curtain a little bit. >> what was so great about that book, i read it in 2003. and learning as a young -- that you were becoming a part of a much larger narrative with real people, not just those folks you saw in tv standing behind podiums but human beings with

their hill airty every single day. >> it's something people in our business learn the wrong lessons from richard ben cramer's book but that's for debate at a another time. >> mine is for john brennan, in high school known as jumping john. he could dunk a basketball. >> get out of here. >> two of my favorite people, chad and sara got engaged over the holidays. >> frank thorpe is employee of the month and roll tide, bama covered last night, baby, exposed notre dame as the frauds they are. >> that's it for the daily rundown. coming up next chris jansing. i'm jennifer hudson.

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